I've asked quite a few questions here about the PM3. A lot of the problems have NEVER been resolved and still occur, although I've worked out "alternative" ways of getting around the problems. Alternatives that are not discussed in the "fine manual".

Now . . . I know tech support comes onto this site, at least from time to time.

AND I know that if I had a very peculilar problem, that tech support might be the best source of information, and that a question of a very peculiar nature might better be handled on a more "personal" manner with tech support.

BUT . . . a question about which type or brand of screen protector? Especially considering the fact that a number of units seem suseptible to "problems", and especially in cold weather.

OR a question about the listed "firmware", as listed in the PM3, which is not adequately covered in the "manual"?

OR the problem with the touch-screen stopping a static session when the "top" of the screen is touched(to turn on the backlight?

OR the problem with the touch-screen's keyboard moving, amost randomly all over the screen . . . sometimes virtually disappearing?

I know that a lot of the problems I have asked about are not "peculiar" to my operation. I know that a number of others are having similar problems, through phonecalls, emails and posters . . . so . . .

Somebody . . . poleeze . . . tell me why it's better for such issues to be taken directly to the tech support team(rather than to asked here)?

IS it better to get a "personal", one person-at-a-time answer?

IS it better for tech support to answer the same question multiple times "personally", instead of giving the answer on the board?

WOULDN'T it be better for the answer to a number of questions, some of them hard-hitting, to be addressed on this site, where EVERYONE can see the answer?

EVERYONE, including the vast . . . "VAST" . . . majority of posters who NEVER post, but rather just view the site.

CAN there be a more simple question, than to ask, on this board, what the best "screen protector", type or brand to use, to replace the one's that came
with(or as in many cases not came with), the PM3 from the "factory"?

I mean . . . should a question about the best screen-protector really be directed to the tech-support, through "proper" channels? Seriously?

YET . . . nothing from tech support.
Modified By John Francis on 1/24/2006 at 7:35 AM

Hello John,

This morning I did some rudimentary testing on the MobleMapper CE with different screen protectors and at different temperatures.

We only carry two screen covers that are noticeably different in their thickness and or/pliability. One is from Topcon, which we use with the FC-100 and FC-2000. It is noticeably stiffer and less pliable than the one from TDS we use with the Recon.

In room temperature I can see no difference in the display response. Both responded to screen calibration and normal functions and could not see a noticeable difference.

After a 1 hour freezer test at 12 degrees, there is still no noticeable difference in the response of the display. Works extremly well.

If you are having problems after a screen cleaning and in settings doing a calibration of the display then the unit probably needs to go in for repair.

Randy

John,
I'd suggest whatever gets you the results you need to make your equipment operate properly. If posting here isn't getting the response you need then I'd call tech support. Actually, if I were having problems and not just fishing for user suggestions, I'd call first. I'd be anxious to call so that at least I could talk to someone and couldn't be ignored. I would suspect some questions aren't answered here because they don't want to publicize some possible problems...would you? Last, I would suggest trying to be nice. You have a brash attitude that I am sure doesn't really motivate people to go out of their way to help you. Professionalism requires that you are treated fairly and are given a proper amount of treatment, but being friendly will get you a lot farther. Maybe it's a regional thing, and people from Ohio are just not as considerate, but I would not go to someone's house and take a dump on their floor and still expect the royal treatment.

food for thought.

Shawn Billings
NOT an employee of Thales

It's not feasable to buy something new and get the pat-answer that something must be wrong with the unit . . . send it in for repairs.

FIRST off, I KNOW PERSONALLY of a number of these problems(plus I got emails of a few more and I talked to my distributor and found out there are more) with the screens and that these problems do not exist when the screen-protector is not on.

AS I POSTED a few weeks ago as did someone else. The question was where the SAME type screen protectors that came on the PM3, might be available from(the ones with the tab).

I also know that some units, after I had noticed the problem were sent out, accidently, maybe, with NO SCREEN PROTECTOR at all.

NOW . . . I know I don't have EVERY OWNER of a PM3 acknowledging to me through this site, email or phone conversations, that they are ALSO experiencing the same problem. Which, by-the-numbers, has to mean that the number of problems is either substantially higher, or I'm the luckiest(or unluckiest) person on earth, to either get or know of the problem's existance in the instances that I'm personally aware of. Not likely.


Modified By John Francis on 1/24/2006 at 11:07 AM

Other manufacturers are having the same kinds of issues as you are discussing here...glitches NOT picked up by the beta testers and production staff...This is a perfect example of being on the bleeding edge of technology....So many here were certain they wanted to be first on the block with that new toy..We were hoping that it would be perfect out of the box....

Guess what. Every manufacturer is doing the same thing. The user base figures out the glitches while tech support and manufacturing go back and see what they did wrong. I have personal knowledge of three different colors of GPS equipment in the last 5 months and their trial by fire approach.

I blame LOW COST equipment. I blame the rush to market approach..I blame MYSELF for wanting more for less$. 10 years ago stuff cost a lot because folks would not put up with major bugs and screwups because they put the time into extensive betatesting and product design.

Now I see less time in the design and testing and more time aftermarket using the customer base as the betatesting processors...you get what you pay for...


This is not a rant at Thales. This is aimed at technology in general..

You know, within days after Katrina I got an "unofficial" call from Tech Support concerning what they could send to me, product wise, to help out with search and recovery missions in the Gulf Coast region. Very shortly thereafter I got an "official" call from Thales/Magellan of San Dimas asking me what I needed and how many. Unfortunately, in my case, those of the initial recovery effort specified they needed users who were fluent in ArcPad GIS, which at the time I wasn't. To know people were dying by the hundreds 180 miles from me, in my State, and those that set the rules had excluded my professional services absolutely ripped my gut out. I attempted several other channels through various federal and state agencies to no avail.

Yet the offer from Thales/Magellan was still there. That's right Billy, "Thales The Monster".

John, I should think a reasonable person would first contact the point of sale for the equipment. Tell them what you are experiencing and give them the chance to "make it right". I'm sure they would get in touch with the manufacturer and work things out for you.

Yet everyday you post your grief with a product to this message board is a day you've lost out of your warranty by not having it "officially" checked out. You did the same damn thing with your ProMark2s with regard to the "antenna short" and "low battery" warnings on your particular receivers.

So I suggest you attempt to work it out with your dealer first. And once you get it resolved, try a GIS mapping project of the places where the homeless sleep in your area. Maybe, just maybe, that will give you some idea of just how horrific your problems really are.

Other message boards I frequent have what they call a "sticky". It's where a certain topic gets posted and stays "to the top" for others to read. I vow to make this message a "sticky", and by the grace of the message board gods, I'm going to get credit for it in the statistics.

Now pass the barbeque and the potato salad, what hymm we singing next and can I get an AMEN.

Dangerous Dave
Modified By Dave Huff on 1/24/2006 at 1:00 PM

There is a distinction to be made between 'technical support' and 'training'... they are different things.

When people call me looking for the former, they most often need the latter instead.



Modified By Scott Partridge on 1/24/2006 at 1:09 PM

It's hard for the sales company to "make it right", when they on't have enough units and they've been inundated with units for the same reason(which they can't send out as replacements).

AND . . . although the screen protector issue "could" be a TECH SUPPORT issue, i really shouldn't have to handled, on an individual basis, through the actual tech support. This forum would be the best way to inform users(posters and viewers only), of the best way to replace screen protectors.

HEY . . . there's NOTHING IN THE MANUAL about screen protectors that I can see and I know for a fact, that a number of units shipped out WITH NO SCREEN PROTECTOR. Yet, I've gotten it, through channels that Thales says you need(should have) a screen protector on the PM3.

I'm jumping all over this screen protector issue, because, when I take the screen protector off . . . ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL my problems magically DISAPPEAR . . . COMPLETELY . . . IN HOT WEATHER AND IN COLD WEATHER . . . COMPLETELY.

I'm sorry, but the issue with a simple little screen protector should be addressed in a more public forum since eventually, it will involve all of us that own a PM3, MM or MM Pro.

It's, it's . . . it's . . . well, it's what many people call a uh . . . uh . . . well the word escapes me, but it's an item that needs replaced often.

That's why they're sold in packs, as opposed to being sold one at a time.

SO . . . what "screen protectors" does Thales say we need/should use to "replace" the screen protectors on the PM3's(if you got one in the first place)? After all not all screen protectors are the same. Some are stickier, some are thicker, some are glossy, some are matte finish.

IS IT "REALLY" A "TECH-SUPPORT" QUESTION?

is that the units ARE NOT MINE, until I pay them off.

I don't even have the option of sending them to Thales directly . . . they're not mine.

The company that leases them takes great care of me and I see them as a buffer between me and the "send the NEW units back for repair" concept.

I threw away the cheap Office Store screen protectors the units came with and installed screen protectors made for the Ranger (no sticky stuff, just static). They fit nicely and work better.

I haven't had any problems with stuff jumping around the screen.

I use the ESC key to turn the screen back on because of your experience with touching the screen so I don't know if it's a problem or not but hitting the ESC key works with no adverse effects.

The cellphone case they come with fit too tight so I don't use them. They partially depress some of the keys so that the other keys don't work. They can't be used with the bracket anyway.

The NAV button is sticky on all three units but it is getting better. I find I have to use a light touch or the key will stick and the screen will keep flipping. I think the situation will resolve itself over time, just growing pains on new units.
Modified By David Karoly on 1/24/2006 at 2:41 PM

Just about a perfect fit. Best thing I've found for them. I think the MM CE and the PM III are the same screen size. I threw away my cut-n-trim "staples" brand screen protectors. getchasome rangers.
Fwiw, I got the Thales pole bracket. Not cheap, but fits like it was made for it. :-)

like JT said, they are almost a perfect fit, maybe a 1/16" small which is good. They are slightly too big for my Carlson Explorer which is bad because they roll up on the edges. I cut them to fit.

They were a little slippy slidy on the brand-new PM3 screen at first but I smoothed them on some more and now they are just about perfect.

I'm using three Seco 5507-15 Quick Change poles. These are just like a regular prism pole but you need adapters. I purchased three 150mm adapters, the adapter makes it so the graduated height on the pole is the same as the ARP height. The poles come with the 35mm adapter so that you can put a Prism on them and use them with the Total Station too. The various adapters make it so the pole graduations are accurate.

Seco 5507 Series pole

The only wrinkle is use of the initializer bar adds extra height but I measured and add the height to the ARP height when doing S&G.

I also purchased three Seco push-button pole tripods. I got them from a Topcon dealer, they say Topcon on them.

But I posted an answer to SOME of the touch screen issues, somewhere.

Carry a TOOTHBRUSH!

And carefully clean around the corners of the touch screen.

to do this, hold the unit UPSIDE down, and gently brush around the permiter of the screen, allowing the bristles to catch all the gunk stuck in there.

If you do not try this, you won't ever have a good day with a touch screen.
I have a ranger, and this does miracles.

I have to do this about 1-2 x a week.

Unless it is not used in brush. It seems that little bits of sticks, and brush fragments really mess up the screen, when they are stuck in there.

I will add that HAYES replaced my touch screen. It was glued in wrong. I had to dump water on it whenever it got hot.

Now that it is replaced, it works FINE.

Nate

I was told NOT to use a screen protector that might touch any of the sides.

Even though 2 of the 3 PM3's I had, had screens protectors with a tab on it.

I'd rather not sy, but it was an individual, working for a sales company, who was in touch a lot with Thales.

This same guy told me that Thales told him that no one should ever operate a PM3 without a screen protector. That was about the same time I heard of some units shipping out WITHOUT screen protectors at all.

I just find it hard to beleive that no one from Thales, nor the manual says anything about the screen protectors.

I've heard there's a very big difference in screen protectors.

Some are sticky, some are not. I was told that using a screen protector that is sticky, might cause problems when I try to take it off.